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	<title>Comments for Rejewvenate!</title>
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	<description>New Thinking on Jewish Orthodoxy</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 06:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Kiddush Starts When?! by rejewvenator</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2008/06/22/kiddush-starts-when/#comment-2533</link>
		<dc:creator>rejewvenator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=113#comment-2533</guid>
		<description>Rabbi Meir managed to condense all of Torah she'be'al peh into the mishnah - he was a man of brevity! 

Look also at the Rambam, especially at the end of the Guide, where he basically says that meditative prayer is the only true prayer, and that everything else is just leading up to it. How today's davening could ever lead to meditative prayer is beyond me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rabbi Meir managed to condense all of Torah she&#8217;be&#8217;al peh into the mishnah - he was a man of brevity! </p>
<p>Look also at the Rambam, especially at the end of the Guide, where he basically says that meditative prayer is the only true prayer, and that everything else is just leading up to it. How today&#8217;s davening could ever lead to meditative prayer is beyond me.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kiddush Starts When?! by Reb Yudel</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2008/06/22/kiddush-starts-when/#comment-2532</link>
		<dc:creator>Reb Yudel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=113#comment-2532</guid>
		<description>You heretic! I just happened to be looking up something unrelated on Berachot 61a, where I found this: 

"R. Huna further said in the name of R. Meir: A man's words should always be few in addressing the Holy One, blessed be He, since it says, Be not rash with thy mouth and let not thy heart be hasty to utter a word before God,’ for God is in heaven and thou upon earth; therefore let thy words be few."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You heretic! I just happened to be looking up something unrelated on Berachot 61a, where I found this: </p>
<p>&#8220;R. Huna further said in the name of R. Meir: A man&#8217;s words should always be few in addressing the Holy One, blessed be He, since it says, Be not rash with thy mouth and let not thy heart be hasty to utter a word before God,’ for God is in heaven and thou upon earth; therefore let thy words be few.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kiddush Starts When?! by rejewvenator</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2008/06/22/kiddush-starts-when/#comment-2531</link>
		<dc:creator>rejewvenator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=113#comment-2531</guid>
		<description>It's definitely not radical enough! The davening has expanded over the years to include more and more mumbled words that nobody pays any attention to. Thank God it's in Hebrew, so at least it retains a sense of mystery! 

Here's my ideal service:

Start with 10-15 minutes of meditative chanting. I'd  just have everyone recite the text of Baruch She'amar over and over again. 

Follow that up with barchu through Amidah (heicha kedusha) - 20 minutes. Break up into Chavruta for some study of the parsha for 30 minutes(triennial cycle), followed by laining and a speech/shiur (30  - 40 minutes). Go directly from eitz chayim hee into heicha kedusah musaf, then aleinu, then kiddush. 

Trim the fat, make davening a participatory experience that encourages reflection and requires bringing something of yourself, not being a passive audience-member. And enough with mumbling so many words! Let's say fewer words, but really try to mean them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s definitely not radical enough! The davening has expanded over the years to include more and more mumbled words that nobody pays any attention to. Thank God it&#8217;s in Hebrew, so at least it retains a sense of mystery! </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my ideal service:</p>
<p>Start with 10-15 minutes of meditative chanting. I&#8217;d  just have everyone recite the text of Baruch She&#8217;amar over and over again. </p>
<p>Follow that up with barchu through Amidah (heicha kedusha) - 20 minutes. Break up into Chavruta for some study of the parsha for 30 minutes(triennial cycle), followed by laining and a speech/shiur (30  - 40 minutes). Go directly from eitz chayim hee into heicha kedusah musaf, then aleinu, then kiddush. </p>
<p>Trim the fat, make davening a participatory experience that encourages reflection and requires bringing something of yourself, not being a passive audience-member. And enough with mumbling so many words! Let&#8217;s say fewer words, but really try to mean them.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kiddush Starts When?! by Reb Yudel</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2008/06/22/kiddush-starts-when/#comment-2530</link>
		<dc:creator>Reb Yudel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=113#comment-2530</guid>
		<description>Good post, but not radical enough.

It's time to reshuffle the whole service.

Can we agree that musaf is a problem? A fourth amidah doesn't really make sense in a culture which doesn't have three daily amidot. Focusing on the korbanot doesn't make senses in a culture that really doesn't want wild fanatics raising red heiffers and self-appointed sanhedrins blowing up mosques.

But in traditional services, we have musaf in the prime real estate, right between the sermon and the kiddush.

So why not try something like this:

Brachot hashacha / in-lieu-of-korbanot torah study / musaf amida (with heichi kedusha)

Psukei d'zimra (selected, but sung) / Nishmat

Triennial Torah Service / Storatelling

Barchu / Kriat Shma / Shacharit Amida

Sermon

Ashrei / misc. psalms / Aleinu


This arrangement brings actual davening front and center in the service.

10:00 am: For davening fanatics

10:30 am: Hear the bar mitzvah boy

11:00 Daven with the community

11:30 Hear the rabbi

12:00 eat



 Or, in these post-modern, siddur-equipped times, it might make sense to shuffle all of this about. 
 
What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, but not radical enough.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s time to reshuffle the whole service.</p>
<p>Can we agree that musaf is a problem? A fourth amidah doesn&#8217;t really make sense in a culture which doesn&#8217;t have three daily amidot. Focusing on the korbanot doesn&#8217;t make senses in a culture that really doesn&#8217;t want wild fanatics raising red heiffers and self-appointed sanhedrins blowing up mosques.</p>
<p>But in traditional services, we have musaf in the prime real estate, right between the sermon and the kiddush.</p>
<p>So why not try something like this:</p>
<p>Brachot hashacha / in-lieu-of-korbanot torah study / musaf amida (with heichi kedusha)</p>
<p>Psukei d&#8217;zimra (selected, but sung) / Nishmat</p>
<p>Triennial Torah Service / Storatelling</p>
<p>Barchu / Kriat Shma / Shacharit Amida</p>
<p>Sermon</p>
<p>Ashrei / misc. psalms / Aleinu</p>
<p>This arrangement brings actual davening front and center in the service.</p>
<p>10:00 am: For davening fanatics</p>
<p>10:30 am: Hear the bar mitzvah boy</p>
<p>11:00 Daven with the community</p>
<p>11:30 Hear the rabbi</p>
<p>12:00 eat</p>
<p> Or, in these post-modern, siddur-equipped times, it might make sense to shuffle all of this about. </p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
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		<title>Comment on So What if Man Wrote the Torah? by Which Torah is Divine? &#171; Rejewvenate!</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/so-what-if-man-wrote-the-torah/#comment-2528</link>
		<dc:creator>Which Torah is Divine? &#171; Rejewvenate!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=114#comment-2528</guid>
		<description>[...] the previous post, I spoke in passing about the tangential, rather than causal relationship between the Written and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the previous post, I spoke in passing about the tangential, rather than causal relationship between the Written and [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Denominationalism and Demographics by rejewvenator</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/denominationalism-and-demographics/#comment-2527</link>
		<dc:creator>rejewvenator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/denominationalism-and-demographics/#comment-2527</guid>
		<description>Sorry Albina, I don't - but I'll ask him next time I see him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Albina, I don&#8217;t - but I&#8217;ll ask him next time I see him.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Denominationalism and Demographics by Albina Tkach</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/denominationalism-and-demographics/#comment-2526</link>
		<dc:creator>Albina Tkach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/denominationalism-and-demographics/#comment-2526</guid>
		<description>Hi, does anybody knows where I can find books or articles written by Pr. Solomon Dinkevich to buy? thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, does anybody knows where I can find books or articles written by Pr. Solomon Dinkevich to buy? thanks.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kiddush Starts When?! by cactusflower99</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2008/06/22/kiddush-starts-when/#comment-2523</link>
		<dc:creator>cactusflower99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 01:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=113#comment-2523</guid>
		<description>Hey rejewvenator,

You make some very interesting points here and in many of your previous posts. Social dynamics that have become ingrained and are hard to change. However, with patience, tolerance, and mutual respect, I think anything can be done. Bravo to you on taking the first step.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey rejewvenator,</p>
<p>You make some very interesting points here and in many of your previous posts. Social dynamics that have become ingrained and are hard to change. However, with patience, tolerance, and mutual respect, I think anything can be done. Bravo to you on taking the first step.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Shul on Time, Terrifies Me! by rejewvenator</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/shul-on-time-terrifies-me/#comment-2521</link>
		<dc:creator>rejewvenator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:41:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=111#comment-2521</guid>
		<description>Mrs Z, fair enough. I've advocated that minyan be ten men AND ten women. 

suitepotato, it's actually me least favorite Bowie song... in any case, what I'm seeing in the independent minyan movement is that learning happens in person. Orthodox communities are probably the ones most engaged in online learning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mrs Z, fair enough. I&#8217;ve advocated that minyan be ten men AND ten women. </p>
<p>suitepotato, it&#8217;s actually me least favorite Bowie song&#8230; in any case, what I&#8217;m seeing in the independent minyan movement is that learning happens in person. Orthodox communities are probably the ones most engaged in online learning.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Shul on Time, Terrifies Me! by Mrs Z</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/shul-on-time-terrifies-me/#comment-2520</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=111#comment-2520</guid>
		<description>You can shift gender roles all you want, it won't change the fact that women are not counted for minyan.  No one would be discussing the issue if it was only the women showing up late.  But without men - Matzav Minyan!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can shift gender roles all you want, it won&#8217;t change the fact that women are not counted for minyan.  No one would be discussing the issue if it was only the women showing up late.  But without men - Matzav Minyan!</p>
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