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	<title>Comments for Rejewvenate!</title>
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	<description>The Personal Blog of Isaac Shalev</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2012 04:06:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Pesach and the Holocaust by rejewvenator</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/pesach-and-the-holocaust/#comment-3176</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rejewvenator]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Apr 2012 04:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=290#comment-3176</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed, the European experience was not monochromatic. However, I doubt Egypt was either. Our relationship to the Egyptian period is our relationship to a mythic story, not history or memory. The tranisiton from a clan to a nation happened in Egypt, and it must have included all sorts of interesting developments, advancements, ideas, and culture.

To me, the European exile was largely the story of Jews being exiled from history and the family of humanity. Jews were considered subhuman, of lower class and caste than anyone else. They were ostracized, hated, and butchered. Sure, there were bright spots, and we took advantage of them, but for the most part, our efforts wre all turned inwards, our greatest achievements did not impact the outside world, and we were largely not players on the world stage and did not shape history.

I also strongly agree with you that times were changing, and the trajectory of world history starting as early as the Enlightenment, and certainly by the 20 and 30s, suggested that a new world order was being ushered in. I see the Holocaust as the final violent convulstion of a reactionry nature, and that it is ultimately a historical blip, rather than a watershed. The trends of the individual rights of humans, of science and reason as sources of authority, and of the nation-state have become the dominant paradigm of world governance and politics. The Holocaust is a red herring in understanding the broader sweep of history.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed, the European experience was not monochromatic. However, I doubt Egypt was either. Our relationship to the Egyptian period is our relationship to a mythic story, not history or memory. The tranisiton from a clan to a nation happened in Egypt, and it must have included all sorts of interesting developments, advancements, ideas, and culture.</p>
<p>To me, the European exile was largely the story of Jews being exiled from history and the family of humanity. Jews were considered subhuman, of lower class and caste than anyone else. They were ostracized, hated, and butchered. Sure, there were bright spots, and we took advantage of them, but for the most part, our efforts wre all turned inwards, our greatest achievements did not impact the outside world, and we were largely not players on the world stage and did not shape history.</p>
<p>I also strongly agree with you that times were changing, and the trajectory of world history starting as early as the Enlightenment, and certainly by the 20 and 30s, suggested that a new world order was being ushered in. I see the Holocaust as the final violent convulstion of a reactionry nature, and that it is ultimately a historical blip, rather than a watershed. The trends of the individual rights of humans, of science and reason as sources of authority, and of the nation-state have become the dominant paradigm of world governance and politics. The Holocaust is a red herring in understanding the broader sweep of history.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pesach and the Holocaust by Friar Yid</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/pesach-and-the-holocaust/#comment-3175</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Friar Yid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 20:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=290#comment-3175</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I first wrote my own Haggadah a few years ago I included some bits about the Holocaust. However over the years my wife has decided she doesn&#039;t particularly like having it in there and has asked me to take it out when I make a new one. I think the Holocaust definitely has a connection to Pesach but I&#039;m not sure I would make Europe and Mitzrayim into a one-to-one analog. Other than random allusions to &quot;fleshpots&quot; (early spam?), Egypt is entirely characterized in the negative. Europe wasn&#039;t quite so neat.

Along with the many brutal persecutions and indignities from the Christian world there was also great creativity and dynamism in the Jewish community over its 1000-plus years in Europe (Sephardi as well as Ashkenazi). Everything from the great yeshivot to the Hasidic masters, to the Haskakah, modern Yiddish culture, and various Jewish political movements. All of that happened in Europe. Yes, more often than not relationships with Christians were bad (though there were also some bright spots in that history, too), but there was an incredibly vitality among the Ashkenazim that reverberates today. While historically we were on the political and social margins my impression is that this was changing in the twenties and thirties, and had it not been for the Shoah, who knows where some of those movements could have gone.

I agree that today Judaism is, or at least seems, relevant and appreciated. However I think there&#039;s a danger in minimizing the accomplishments and achievements of the past, of condensing all that history now into just another blip on the radar between the Exile and the Redemption. It wasn&#039;t just persecution. Europe wasn&#039;t only another stop on a long road back to Israel. Our people made a life there, a whole world there. Unlike Egypt, they weren&#039;t just surviving. They were, in various ways, thriving. And I think we owe it to them and to ourselves to remember and tell that story honestly, without selling them short.

We shouldn&#039;t have to tear down our past in order to elevate the present or the future. To do so does no one any favors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I first wrote my own Haggadah a few years ago I included some bits about the Holocaust. However over the years my wife has decided she doesn&#8217;t particularly like having it in there and has asked me to take it out when I make a new one. I think the Holocaust definitely has a connection to Pesach but I&#8217;m not sure I would make Europe and Mitzrayim into a one-to-one analog. Other than random allusions to &#8220;fleshpots&#8221; (early spam?), Egypt is entirely characterized in the negative. Europe wasn&#8217;t quite so neat.</p>
<p>Along with the many brutal persecutions and indignities from the Christian world there was also great creativity and dynamism in the Jewish community over its 1000-plus years in Europe (Sephardi as well as Ashkenazi). Everything from the great yeshivot to the Hasidic masters, to the Haskakah, modern Yiddish culture, and various Jewish political movements. All of that happened in Europe. Yes, more often than not relationships with Christians were bad (though there were also some bright spots in that history, too), but there was an incredibly vitality among the Ashkenazim that reverberates today. While historically we were on the political and social margins my impression is that this was changing in the twenties and thirties, and had it not been for the Shoah, who knows where some of those movements could have gone.</p>
<p>I agree that today Judaism is, or at least seems, relevant and appreciated. However I think there&#8217;s a danger in minimizing the accomplishments and achievements of the past, of condensing all that history now into just another blip on the radar between the Exile and the Redemption. It wasn&#8217;t just persecution. Europe wasn&#8217;t only another stop on a long road back to Israel. Our people made a life there, a whole world there. Unlike Egypt, they weren&#8217;t just surviving. They were, in various ways, thriving. And I think we owe it to them and to ourselves to remember and tell that story honestly, without selling them short.</p>
<p>We shouldn&#8217;t have to tear down our past in order to elevate the present or the future. To do so does no one any favors.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Abortion Proof-Text, or Internal Allusion? by Resources for Genesis 44:26 - 29</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2007/02/22/abortion-proof-text-or-internal-allusion/#comment-3132</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Resources for Genesis 44:26 - 29]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2012 11:18:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2007/02/22/abortion-proof-text-or-internal-allusion/#comment-3132</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] 1Abortion Proof-Text, or Internal Allusion? &#171; Rejewvenate!  SUBMIT [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 1Abortion Proof-Text, or Internal Allusion? &laquo; Rejewvenate!  SUBMIT [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on I wanted to comment on Scott Perlo in the Jewish Journal by Friar Yid</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/i-wanted-to-comment-on-scott-perlo-in-the-jewish-journal/#comment-3118</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Friar Yid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jan 2012 18:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=282#comment-3118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s nice to see a new post from you!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s nice to see a new post from you!</p>
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		<title>Comment on I wanted to comment on Scott Perlo in the Jewish Journal by rejewvenator</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/i-wanted-to-comment-on-scott-perlo-in-the-jewish-journal/#comment-3105</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rejewvenator]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 15:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=282#comment-3105</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not sure I understand - is the question of whether Israel is important legitimate, or is it only raised because of the massive international campaign to wipe Israel out (l&#039;shitascha) ?

Israel&#039;s continued existence as a Jewish and democratic state isn&#039;t necessary for the world. We might prefer such a world, but I don&#039;t think we can go further than that.

Finally, I think the question of why do we need Israel is answered by secular Zionism. Actually, secular Zionism is built upon that question: Israel is the answer to the question of how will the Jewish people successfully live free of racism and in safety on this earth. Herzl and the classical Zionists were race-nationalists who believed that each ethnic group/race should have its own country, with Jews being no exception. The happy condition of the secular Jew in Miami is, according to Zionists, a temporary illusion that antisemitic moments like the Dreyfuss Affair showed. Eventually, the non-Jew would turn against the Jew, no matter how enlightened the non-Jewish country seemed to be.

Religious Zionism doesn&#039;t really change the equation much. Saying that Jews should live in Israel and build a religious state because God said so is, semantically, the equivalent of saying &quot;I know how the universe is supposed to turn out.&quot; It doesn&#039;t answer any question for anyone not already convinced of the same truth, and is in fact alienating to anyone who doesn&#039;t believe.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure I understand &#8211; is the question of whether Israel is important legitimate, or is it only raised because of the massive international campaign to wipe Israel out (l&#8217;shitascha) ?</p>
<p>Israel&#8217;s continued existence as a Jewish and democratic state isn&#8217;t necessary for the world. We might prefer such a world, but I don&#8217;t think we can go further than that.</p>
<p>Finally, I think the question of why do we need Israel is answered by secular Zionism. Actually, secular Zionism is built upon that question: Israel is the answer to the question of how will the Jewish people successfully live free of racism and in safety on this earth. Herzl and the classical Zionists were race-nationalists who believed that each ethnic group/race should have its own country, with Jews being no exception. The happy condition of the secular Jew in Miami is, according to Zionists, a temporary illusion that antisemitic moments like the Dreyfuss Affair showed. Eventually, the non-Jew would turn against the Jew, no matter how enlightened the non-Jewish country seemed to be.</p>
<p>Religious Zionism doesn&#8217;t really change the equation much. Saying that Jews should live in Israel and build a religious state because God said so is, semantically, the equivalent of saying &#8220;I know how the universe is supposed to turn out.&#8221; It doesn&#8217;t answer any question for anyone not already convinced of the same truth, and is in fact alienating to anyone who doesn&#8217;t believe.</p>
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		<title>Comment on I wanted to comment on Scott Perlo in the Jewish Journal by Garnel Ironheart</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/i-wanted-to-comment-on-scott-perlo-in-the-jewish-journal/#comment-3103</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Garnel Ironheart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jan 2012 13:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=282#comment-3103</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Why is Israel important?&quot; is a legitimate question.  How would the world be different if Israel didn&#039;t exist?  Why is its continued existence necessary for the world?
Other countries don&#039;t have to answer these questions but that&#039;s simply because no other country is the target of a multi-national trillion dollar campaign to wipe it out!
The question for Jews is: what do we do with Israel now that we have it?
This for me is why I am Dati Leumi.  Secular Zionism accomplished incredible things in building up and establishing the State, no question, but that philosophy had no follow-up when the question &quot;Why do we need Israel?&quot; was then asked.  After all, if we can be just as happy in New York and Miami, why do we need to &quot;occupy&quot; so- called Palestinian land?  Why cause all the tzurus by insisting on being in this one particular spot?
Secular Zionism has no answer.  A secular Jew can be happy in Miami.  Chareidism has no answer.  A Chareidi can be happy in Brooklyn.  A religious Zionist cannot be happy anywhere but Israel because he sees the restablishing of Israel not as a post-Holocaust lifeboat, a good idea or just something that happened but as evidence that God is moving history forward towards the final redemption.  Israel is no grand experiment but a return of Judaism as a national entity instead of a religious one.  It is this goal, to establish a modern Jewish state with the Torah as its constitution, that should be the goal of Jews in Israel.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why is Israel important?&#8221; is a legitimate question.  How would the world be different if Israel didn&#8217;t exist?  Why is its continued existence necessary for the world?<br />
Other countries don&#8217;t have to answer these questions but that&#8217;s simply because no other country is the target of a multi-national trillion dollar campaign to wipe it out!<br />
The question for Jews is: what do we do with Israel now that we have it?<br />
This for me is why I am Dati Leumi.  Secular Zionism accomplished incredible things in building up and establishing the State, no question, but that philosophy had no follow-up when the question &#8220;Why do we need Israel?&#8221; was then asked.  After all, if we can be just as happy in New York and Miami, why do we need to &#8220;occupy&#8221; so- called Palestinian land?  Why cause all the tzurus by insisting on being in this one particular spot?<br />
Secular Zionism has no answer.  A secular Jew can be happy in Miami.  Chareidism has no answer.  A Chareidi can be happy in Brooklyn.  A religious Zionist cannot be happy anywhere but Israel because he sees the restablishing of Israel not as a post-Holocaust lifeboat, a good idea or just something that happened but as evidence that God is moving history forward towards the final redemption.  Israel is no grand experiment but a return of Judaism as a national entity instead of a religious one.  It is this goal, to establish a modern Jewish state with the Torah as its constitution, that should be the goal of Jews in Israel.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Wet and Wild? Single Women and the Mikvah by Abigayil</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2007/06/18/wet-and-wild/#comment-3033</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Abigayil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2011 09:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2007/06/18/wet-and-wild/#comment-3033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael, you should be thrown off. I don&#039;t think anybody here is pushing the idea that you should go looking for opportunities to have premarital sex. As far as I know, no such forum exists, nor should it. IMHO, that is NOT Religious, NOT Orthodox, nor orthoprax, just plain sinful. I&#039;m not at all negating the above comments or ideas, but I&#039;m certainly not going to encourage you to go out looking for opportunities to sin. You should repent of this need to have sex out of wedlock and just get married already!*

Really, I don&#039;t know what you expect, people are not going to be THAT open about their dirty deeds, but people do blog about it and the certainly the Hipster Jewish internet sphere is chock full of such discussion and article writing.

Abigayil

*Obviously in a serious, loving, committed relationship, not a marriage of convenience.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, you should be thrown off. I don&#8217;t think anybody here is pushing the idea that you should go looking for opportunities to have premarital sex. As far as I know, no such forum exists, nor should it. IMHO, that is NOT Religious, NOT Orthodox, nor orthoprax, just plain sinful. I&#8217;m not at all negating the above comments or ideas, but I&#8217;m certainly not going to encourage you to go out looking for opportunities to sin. You should repent of this need to have sex out of wedlock and just get married already!*</p>
<p>Really, I don&#8217;t know what you expect, people are not going to be THAT open about their dirty deeds, but people do blog about it and the certainly the Hipster Jewish internet sphere is chock full of such discussion and article writing.</p>
<p>Abigayil</p>
<p>*Obviously in a serious, loving, committed relationship, not a marriage of convenience.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kiddush Starts When?! by MyaStone</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2008/06/22/kiddush-starts-when/#comment-3017</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MyaStone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2011 02:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=113#comment-3017</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If meditative chanting catches on I am out of this religion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If meditative chanting catches on I am out of this religion.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Dealing with Dweck by Soloman dweck &#124; TesticleRadio</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2009/07/26/dealing-with-dweck/#comment-3015</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Soloman dweck &#124; TesticleRadio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Mar 2011 20:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=229#comment-3015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Dealing with Dweck &#171; Rejewvenate!Lots of websites and commenters have been throwing around the term moser to describe Solomon Dweck, the FBI informant who cooperated with authorities to help implicate rabbis, politicians and other notables in the recent sting. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dealing with Dweck &#171; Rejewvenate!Lots of websites and commenters have been throwing around the term moser to describe Solomon Dweck, the FBI informant who cooperated with authorities to help implicate rabbis, politicians and other notables in the recent sting. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kiddush Starts When?! by tom</title>
		<link>http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/2008/06/22/kiddush-starts-when/#comment-3008</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Feb 2011 01:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rejewvenate.wordpress.com/?p=113#comment-3008</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[somehow, this discussion overlooks the most obvious place to save time - the rabbi&#039;s drasha.  instead of a 20-minute harangue to the accompaniment of gentle snoring, a 5-minute (max) dvar torah would be enough.

it certainly works at my shul, where we start at 9:30 and usually finish about 12:15, give or take, which leaves plenty of time and energy for a fabulous and very social kiddush.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>somehow, this discussion overlooks the most obvious place to save time &#8211; the rabbi&#8217;s drasha.  instead of a 20-minute harangue to the accompaniment of gentle snoring, a 5-minute (max) dvar torah would be enough.</p>
<p>it certainly works at my shul, where we start at 9:30 and usually finish about 12:15, give or take, which leaves plenty of time and energy for a fabulous and very social kiddush.</p>
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